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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
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Hello, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com, and this episode is on a topic I have not talked a ton about, which is the topic of skincare from the inside out and topically, and how to simplify your skincare routine for better results, what the minimum effective doses are, what to avoid, what to try. And I’m here with Dr. Mary Alice Mina, who’s a Harvard-trained, double-board-certified dermatologist and dermatologic surgeon, and a leading expert on skin health and skincare. She also hosts The Skin Real podcast for people looking for guidance on skincare, and she has over 15 years of clinical experience. And we talk about a lot of skincare to basic skincare topics in this episode, what she does, what she recommends, what she recommends avoiding, where to save your money, and so much more. And I will say, she and I have similar but different approaches, and one aspect would be I don’t avoid the sun, as many of you probably know, but I do use things like hats so I don’t get too much sun exposure on my face. And I also focus on things like natural skincare, and using tallow actually has been very helpful. As well as internal things like magnesium and silica. But we touched on a lot of those today. So let’s jump in with Dr. Mary Alice Mina. Dr. Mina, welcome. Thanks so much for being here.
Dr. Mina: Thanks so much for having me, Katie. I’m really thrilled to be on your podcast.
Katie: I’m excited for our conversation. And this is actually personally relevant to me because skincare isn’t something I’ve paid a lot of attention to until relatively recently. So I’m really excited to learn from you. And in researching your approach, the term minimalist skincare came up, which I was super excited about because as a mom of six, I don’t have extra hours in my day to do something long and involved. So I would love to sort of start there, start broad and talk about what is a minimalist skincare regimen, maybe like sort of a minimum effective dose. I know there’s, according to TikTok, a thousand things we could all do, but what are the things that actually make a difference?
Dr. Mina: Yeah, totally. So I’m a mom too. I don’t have six children, but even with two, I just do not have time for a complicated skincare routine. And I know your listeners are moms, they’re busy. We have so many things pulling for our attention and things to do. And skincare, a complicated skincare routine does not need to be one of them.
And also again, as a mom, my kids are a little bit older now, so they’re a little more self-sufficient, but we are so busy taking care of everyone else and we take care of ourselves last typically, right? And so I just want to hopefully help empower the moms listening that skincare is self-care. It’s important to do, but it also doesn’t need to be complicated and elaborate and expensive. And that’s where I think some of these influencers and people on social media are really just not sending the greatest message and people are feeling overwhelmed and they don’t even know where to begin.
So I’ll just kind of start off telling you how the basics, right? What you really, the minimal, you said, what is it? Minimal effective dose of what you need to be doing for your skin. And the basics are three things. You should clean your face every night and wash off any makeup, wash off any dirt, pollution, grime from the day, so wash your face at night. Moisturizer is really important. That’s, you know, really no matter what kind of skin you have, most people can benefit from a moisturizer and then sun protection with a sunscreen. And that can be, that can be it. It can really be as simple as that.
Katie: Yeah, well, I see what you mean, because on social media, Instagram and TikTok, we see, or at least I often see what looks like 20-year-old influencers telling us all the specifics of their 24-step skincare routine. And I’m thinking you also have the benefit of time on your side because you’re like 20 or 21. And good skin was pretty effortless at 21 for me. And I feel like a lot of moms, especially, maybe look at that and go, okay, get back to me when you’ve had kids or when you’ve been up all night with babies or whatever the case may be. So I love that you have this mindset of it does not have to be complicated or expensive because also a lot of these people have apparently a very elaborate budget for their skincare routine. And this is not something I want to put as a massive line item in my budget.
I also think from a mindset perspective, like I know on this podcast, I’ve talked a lot about the benefits of light to the body in general and how especially like morning sunshine sets our security and rhythm. Certain amounts of healthy sun exposure affect our mitochondria. But we want to balance that, like you said, without aging our skin on our face by too much sun exposure. And I think everybody would be in agreement of not damaging the skin from the sun. And so finding that balance. I know I often turn toward just hats if I’m going to be outside at a track meet or something. I’ll cover and be essentially use shade to my advantage as well. So I don’t have to keep adding tons of products to my skin. What about things like-
Dr. Mina: I know there-
Katie: Oh, go ahead.
Dr. Mina: Oh, yeah. Katie, I just want to elaborate on that because that’s such a great point. When people hear I, hopefully, I said. For sun protection and then SPF. But that SPF is what you put on. Right. But I am a huge, huge proponent of sun protection via other means as well. So just like you, I don’t love and maybe this sounds crazy, but I don’t love putting a lot of stuff on my skin. I just don’t like how it feels. If it can feel sticky, I tend to have oily skin and I feel like it sweats off. And so the last thing I want to do is reapply my sunscreen if I have makeup on or I’m going, you know, somewhere. And so, I will be like you. I will put on a hat, and I pretty much always have a hat with me. And I feel like I’m not saying don’t wear sunscreen because that is sort of the bare minimum. But if you know you’re going to be outside, people never put on enough sunscreen. They never rub it in as well as they should. And we always skip areas. Right. We just forget. Oh, shoot. I didn’t get it right on the top of my ear behind my ear. I have my hair in a ponytail. So I love, love, love hats.
And I also love sun-protective clothing. So especially if you’re worried about chemicals or things on your skin, or you really want to minimize having to feel kind of greasy and sticky, sun-protective clothing is amazing. It will block out 98% of the harmful UV rays from the sun. We use this a lot with children. Probably a lot of the listeners are like, oh yeah, my kids wear sun shirts when they go to the pool, and they wear hats when they go to the pool. And I feel like people are really, really good about protecting baby’s skin, but then we kind of forget our own. And so I love sun-protective clothing. If I’m going to be outside, I tend to try not to stay in the direct sunlight. It’s still in the shade and we get more sun than you realize. You get it driving in your car, you get it sitting next to a window.
So the more aware you can be and cognizant of that, it’s super, super important because about 80 to 90% of aging on our face is from the sun. And especially if you want to follow a minimalistic routine, you don’t want to be one of those people getting tons of cosmetic procedures and lasers and all that stuff later down the road, then simply preventing it now is key. So I love that you brought that up about sun-protective clothing and hats and all that.
Katie: That’s a great point. And as a random tip related to this, for people who are trying to balance the getting light and vitamin D without getting too much sun exposure, there’s a cool app called D-Minder that lets you know the light intensity where you are and can also show you, like you talked about, if you’re getting more sun than you realized. But if you’re trying to get sun on your arms and legs and gut for all those benefits, it’ll help you hit the right dose without hitting that range where you’re harming your skin at all. So that’s just a random tip I use often. And if anybody else wants to try it as well.
And I think also when it comes to skincare, there’s kind of the aging conversation because a lot of skincare products are marketed as anti-aging. And personally, only my opinion, but I’ve never been one who was afraid of aging, but I would like to do it as gracefully as possible. So I’m curious, are there any products that are actually evidence-based that can help our skin keep a more youthful appearance as we get older and that are worth considering and adding in beyond just the cleansing, moisturizing parts of the routine?
Dr. Mina: Yeah, great, great point. And it seems like there’s this movement towards pro-aging, this movement of sort of understanding, embracing aging, not being afraid of it. But at the same time, that also doesn’t just mean, well, you know, whatever happens, happens, right? It involves actually taking proactive steps now to keep your body as healthy as possible, including your skin. And so, yeah, they’re sort of the term anti-aging, it seems very negative, seems very reactive. Like I’m trying to go back to how I looked when I was 20, which is not necessarily the case, right? But just like you, I want to feel as good as possible and look as good as possible as I go through the seasons of life. And so I would, again, I sound like a broken record. But if you really want to preserve your skin and your skin health, then you have to sun protect from the radiation from the sun. So SPF sunscreen, wearing sun protective clothing, things like that, that’s like 90%. And there’s incredible data supporting that.
The second thing, so for my skincare routine, I am a minimalist, but I do incorporate a few more things than what I mentioned earlier with the gentle cleanser, moisturizer, sunscreen. I use a vitamin A cream in the evening. So probably listeners know this as a retinol or a retinoid. And I find that this mighty little cream, which will last you a very, very long time, is one of the most cost-effective things that you can do for your skin in the long run. It has been shown in numerous research studies to boost your collagen by up to 300%. And there’s really nothing that compares to that. And so using a tiny little pee at night on your face, your neck, tops of your hands, areas that tend to be sun exposed is a great way to play the long game, keep your skin looking and feeling as good as you do as you go through the seasons of life. So for people who are pregnant, we don’t recommend it. So if anyone out there is pregnant or thinking about becoming pregnant, it’s not a good choice. But, if you are not pregnant, then it’s a great option. It’s very, very cost effective and very good data supporting it. So that’s one of my additional products that I use.
Katie: That makes sense. And it makes sense to me sort of intuitively as well, because there are also a lot of sister studies that look at vitamin A and all the fat-soluble vitamins within the body and their effects on our cells as we age. So it makes sense that those same things would benefit our skin, kind of an as-above-so-below mentality, which also makes me curious about things like vitamin C serums because these have gotten pretty popular as well. Is there data to back their use, and is that something you recommend?
Dr. Mina: Yeah, so vitamin C has gotten a lot of buzz. And I didn’t use a vitamin C serum until maybe the last couple of months. And sometimes I think, well, why am I using this vitamin C serum? Because there is data, there is good evidence. Basically what it does, it’s an antioxidant. Vitamin C is essential in building collagen. So it’s important that we also take it in via our diet. But also when it’s used topically, it can also help fight free radicals that happen from pollution and sun exposure.
And what it’s really good at doing is helping with hyperpigmentation. So if someone does have signs of sun damage on their face, which are like little brown spots or their skin texture is not very even, then a vitamin C serum is a great option for helping with that. And so sometimes I think people need to think about, when they’re using products, why are you using it, right? So when I say, sometimes I wonder why am I using it? I don’t struggle with hyperpigmentation. So sometimes I wonder, like, do I really need it? But I sort of find that the antioxidant benefits are impactful. And since I am every day just living exposed to free radicals, that it can be helpful with that.
So that’s another one, if you were going to want to add just a little bit more, sort of you want to up your skincare game. If you’re probably between the ages of like 30 to 50, then I think adding a vitamin C serum in the morning is a good option. And then adding the vitamin A cream at night. But just remember some of these vitamin C serums are incredibly expensive. And while the main one out there that has really good data, it’s probably, you know, I think it’s almost 200 bucks. I don’t feel like you need to spend that kind of money for a vitamin C serum. I get mine at the drugstore.
Katie: That’s definitely refreshing to hear. I know another topic that comes up in relation to skincare is sort of like different skin types. And I’m curious, is there data to that? And do we potentially need to look at different things if we have different skin types? Like I know personally, I sort of only learned skincare as an acne-prone 16-year-old, and I didn’t really evolve that for a really long time until pretty recently. But is there something to that? Because I noticed my skin was actually dry. I thought it was still oily. And when I shifted my products, it actually, I found I needed more things like moisturizer and that didn’t cause acne, but I just hadn’t made that mental switch.
Dr. Mina: Yeah. So I did a podcast episode with someone who’s a stylist and she helps people, women, go through their closet and get the basics and stuff like that. And I was laughing because I feel like it’s synonymous with skincare, right? Where you might have all these products and you’re like, oh my gosh, nothing works. Just like you might open your closet and say, I have all these clothes and I don’t know how to put anything together. And the problem is we’re not focused on our skin type and what we really need. So that’s kind of like first and foremost.
And I sort of say your skincare habits are based on two things. You got to look at your skincare type and then you’ve got to pair that with your skincare goals, right? And everyone’s going to have different goals and that’s sort of what determines what your habits should be. So with your skincare type or your skin type, typically, we think of this as whether you have oily skin, dry skin, combination skin, sensitive skin, or normal skin. And those are kind of your main skin types. But here’s the thing. We sometimes think like, I’ll say, oh, I have oily skin. That’s my skin type. Well, that was my skin type when I was 16. And now I’m 43. So my skin type has changed. It’s not necessarily something that, that’s it for the rest of your life. And I think that’s one of the issues we have is that we think this is our skin type and we sort of set it and forget it. And then 20 years later, you’re like, wait a minute, maybe this isn’t my skin type. Maybe I need to shift things around a little bit. So we change, right? As we age, pregnancy, perimenopause, menopause, our skin is going to change as well. And so it’s important to know that your skin needs are going to change. So maybe you didn’t really need a thick moisturizer in the past, but now your skin is getting more dry or your skin is getting more irritated. So maybe you could handle fragrances in the past, but now you need to start thinking about using fragrance-free products. So it’s important to be mindful of that and to realize your skin type can change and to be aware of that and make sure your products reflect that.
Katie: That makes sense. And I know we’re going to do a whole episode on skincare and menopause, postmenopause, and as we age, what to look at differently. But I’m glad you brought this up because the fact that our skin can change when our hormones change, for instance, to me indicates that, of course, our skin being our largest and external organ is impacted also by what’s going on inside our body, which has been no more on the nutrition side than the skincare side. But I’m curious from your perspective and what you see with the skin health side, what things we can do from an internal perspective to support how our skin looks externally. And I would guess this would be things like getting enough nutrients from our food and micronutrients, not just calories. And I know hydration is often talked about, but how important are things like hydration and sleep and the nutrient quality of our food when it comes to how our skin looks?
Dr. Mina: Gosh, I love this. It’s critical, right? And I feel like people think of skincare or taking care of their skin as what do I need to put on it? It’s always outside in. What products do I need to buy? What procedures do I need to get to reverse? And really what we need to be thinking about is that skin care is really whole-body care. You have got to take care of your body from the inside if you want to have beautiful skin. You cannot mistreat your body. You cannot smoke. You cannot drink excessively. You cannot eat a terrible diet or processed foods and think you’re going to have beautiful skin. And you may try to fool yourself because in your 20s, you might be able to fake it a bit, maybe even into your 30s, but I promise you it’s going to catch up to you. And you cannot have healthy, beautiful, glowing, radiant skin if you’re abusing your body. And so I think that’s a big misconception for people. And hopefully that’s changing where we’re kind of looking at our health in a more holistic way and how our organs are really all kind of interconnected. But you cannot, do not go buy an expensive moisturizer and think that that’s going to reverse all the mistreatment of your body. So I love that you bring that up.
And the other thing is that people don’t realize is that actually our skin is a reflection of what’s going on internally. If you are struggling, or I guess I could, give a story of someone in my office who she was itchy all over and developed this rash. And it was, it took months and months to kind of figure out what was really going on. And internally she had lymphoma, and this was the skin was the outside manifestation. The first sign that something was going on internally that was out of whack. Now that’s kind of like extreme, right? But we know a lot about your gut health, how important your gut health is to really every organ, but your mind, your skin. So I love that people we’re talking about this and that people are hopefully thinking about this, that really skincare is whole-body care or skincare is really whole-body care.
And so some of the top things I’d recommend, think about your diet. That’s huge, right? Making sure you are eating whole foods. And there’s debate on whether, should it be more plant-based, right? The people who live in the blue zones tend to eat more of a plant-based diet. But then we also have people who are really promoting protein. And I agree that as we get older, our protein intake needs to go up and unfortunately it actually goes down. And that’s why people get a lot of what’s called sarcopenia where their muscles kind of waste away. So making sure you’re eating protein, lean proteins, fatty fish that can be really helpful for your skin. What did they say? Like shop around the periphery of the grocery store, right? Get food that looks like food. Get carrots, get actual carrots. Don’t get something that’s like carrot flavored, right? The more whole foods you can eat, the better. Healthy fats, protein, fiber is super important, especially as we get older too. So your diet is key.
And I used to be more of a sugar, have more of a sweet tooth than I do now that I tend to sort of gravitate more towards salty. But we know that eating a lot of refined sugars can develop these things called AGE. So basically the sugar binds and we have the, it’s called advanced glycation end products and it binds to our collagen, like in our skin and makes it stiff and brittle and friable. And so if your diet is full of refined sugar and sweets and sodas, you are aging your skin simply from that. So I also think everything in moderation, right? I mean, you wanna enjoy your life. I don’t think you should live so restrictive with your diet that you can’t also enjoy life because I think that also mental health is super important, but just be mindful of that, that what you are putting into your body is super, super important. And things like sleep, right? How many of us neglect our sleep? Sorry, Katie, if you want to interject and stop me at any point.
Katie: No, that’s great. I love that you’re talking sleep.
Dr. Mina: Yeah. So I know, and as a, in medical training and probably for a lot of people, professionals, it’s almost like a badge of honor to be like, oh, I don’t need sleep, right? I can get four hours of sleep and I’m fine. And now that I’m in my forties, I’m like, you know what? I’m not fine with four hours of sleep or five hours or six hours. Sleep is important. I don’t like waking up, feeling crappy, feeling tired, feeling more irritable and also eating worse and having to take energy drinks or coffee just to be awake. That is not how I want to feel. That’s not how I want to spend my day. And I love that there’s this emphasis now on like sleep is not a sign of weakness. Sleep is critical for restoring our body and all our organs, including our skin. So I know it’s difficult at times, not every night you’re going to be able to get all those hours. I just, you know, my eight-year-old was waking me up the last three nights because she was sick, and if you’ve got babies, that’s another thing.
But I think putting an emphasis on that is critical and exercise, right? I know when I was a mom of young kids, it was like, I didn’t have time to exercise. That was like the last thing on my list. But now I realize I really got to prioritize that and not because I’m trying to lose weight or be skinny. And I try to teach my kids that too. Like mom is doing this because I feel good when I do it. I feel better. I think more clearly and I’m building strong muscles and bones. It’s not about a number on a scale or you know, losing weight. It’s really about being healthy. And so I can keep my body as strong as possible. So those are just a few of the ways that you can really impact not only your skin, your whole-body health by focusing on what’s going on internally. And that I think is so much more powerful than any cream or product or procedure I can tell you to get done.
Katie: I love your perspective on those things. And I love that you brought up yet another reason to avoid at least the processed sugar as much as possible. Because we know there’s such a difference when you’re eating something like fruit or vegetables that have the fiber and all the micronutrients versus just the sugar. And I love that you tied that into collagen deteriorating when we do that too much. And also that you brought in moderation. Because like you, I’m not the type to say never eat sugar again. That wouldn’t be realistic in today’s world. But be aware of what’s going into your body and make choices based on what your goals are. And I love that you brought in the skincare focus.
Also love that you touched on sleep. I feel like in the 700 plus people I’ve talked to on this podcast, not a single person would tell you sleep is not important. That’s kind of a universally agreed upon, like our body repairs when we sleep. And I know, like you said, that can be difficult in some phases of life, especially as a new mom. So don’t bring guilt and stress and shame into that when you have a bad night of sleep. But when it’s possible, prioritize it. And I think by doing that, you also touched on modeling. By doing things like exercise and sleep, we’re modeling for our kids why those things are important as well. And so this is like a far reaching benefit that extends even to our kids. And so I love that you tied those things in.
And I know I was going to ask you about procedures as well, but I think I may hold that for round two. So if you guys are listening, make sure you tune into our next episode when it airs because I know there’s a lot of controversy around some of those as well. And we’re going to talk about skin as we age and especially with hormone changes like menopause. And we’ll touch on procedures as well. But for this first episode, thank you so much for such a clear and simple and I feel like doable plan and even explaining the internal things that go with it. This has been a really fun conversation and I’m so grateful. Thank you so much.
Dr. Mina: Oh, Katie, my pleasure. And I am super excited for our next episode.
Katie: And briefly, I know I’ll put a link in the show notes. Where can people find you online to learn more and get more details?
Dr. Mina: Yeah, so my handle on social media is @drminaskin. I have a skin-focused podcast called The Skin Real. And I also have a free PDF if people want to learn more about how to determine their skin type and pair it with their skin goals to create their healthy skin habits at theskinreal.com/habits.
Katie: Perfect. That will be linked in the show notes at wellnessmama.com. And thank you all for listening and sharing your time with us today. We’re so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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