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Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.
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Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m so grateful you’re here. I am really excited for this episode. I’m here with Veronica Rottman, and we talk all about somatic and nervous system healing and why this is so important. And I’ve gotten a lot of questions about this topic since sharing my own healing journey and trauma recovery and being able to release Hashimoto’s for my body. And I’m not qualified to obviously give any explanation or coaching on somatic healing, but it was something that was very helpful for me, which is why I’m so excited to be here with Veronica, who is a somatic practitioner and educator, and she’s the founder of Waking Womb, which is a somatic practice that centers healing trauma through the nervous system and especially for women and relating to relational and emotional trauma, boundary ruptures, motherhood, and so much more. And she has a lot of resources for this online that I will link to in the show notes for you guys listening on the go. That always is at wellnessmama.com, but we go into this topic today and especially how to begin the somatic healing process. So let’s jump in. Veronica, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
Veronica: Thanks so much, Katie. It’s a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you.
Katie: I’m really excited for our conversation today because longtime listeners have probably heard me talk, at least in passing, about my own healing and recovery from trauma and how the somatic aspect of that ended up being very important to me and actually even addressing nervous system health in general. It was something that was sort of off my radar and I was doing all the supplements and all the things and working with all the doctors. And it wasn’t until I addressed those things that all that stuff actually worked. And so now I’m a firm believer. This piece is really, really important. And I also know for somebody who has not experienced it, it can seem a little elusive or confusing or they just might not even know where to start. So to jump into the conversation somewhat broadly and build a foundation we can build on, can you talk about what somatics are, what nervous system healing is, kind of define some terms for our conversation?
Veronica: Yes, I’d love to. So if we start with somatics and we break down just that word, the root word of somatics is soma, which means body. It also means moon, which I think is pretty radical. And somatics is this umbrella term for any type of modality that centers healing through the body. So there are lots of different modalities that fall under that umbrella, including things like yoga, reiki. And my specialty, my education and background is in somatic experiencing, which is the program created by Dr. Peter Levine, who is a pretty well-known pioneer within the somatic world and trauma healing world. And somatic experiencing is a form of trauma resolution through the nervous system. So it integrates somatics with polyvagal theory, nervous system education to, yeah, help people transform their trauma into having more health and vitality. And it’s a highly effective form of trauma resolution known worldwide. So I integrate that with my background of 15 years in somatics, including holistic pelvic care, my work as a doula, and a yoga teacher.
Katie: I love that. And I’m also a doula. I don’t do it very often because six kids, but one of my close friends is due in May, and I’m super excited to get to hold space for her. And to build on everything you said, I love this concept. And I, again, just echo what you said and really want to bring up how powerful this can be. I think it can often be overlooked because of its simplicity, but I think its importance cannot be stated enough. And what I realized in my own journey was just like being stressed can create sort of a negative feedback loop in our body and then that changes our mental state. It kind of becomes negative loop. The same works in reverse. And so I had this story in my head that, oh, if only I healed this and this, if only I was this size, if only I looked like this, then I would be happy. And what I realized was when I started integrating and addressing the nervous system side, A, my mental state changed a lot. And B, my body caught up eventually once I had let go of that trauma. And reading the book, The Body Keeps the Score kind of opened my eyes to that for the first time, the idea that emotions actually can store in the body. So therefore, we can use the body to actually help heal our inner state as well. But I know this is your work of genius. So can you explain that a little deeper for people who maybe haven’t heard about this or understood how that concept works?
Veronica: Yeah, I’d love to, Katie. You know, most of us have been taught to live from the neck up, meaning we are a very mind-centric, pragmatic, intellectual society, right? We really idealize the mind as the control center of our entire life. If I can just think this way, if I can just change the way I’m thinking, then everything will be resolved. Now, here comes the nervous system, the autonomic nervous system, which can be translated as like automatic. And what we now know through research is that the autonomic nervous system is actually driving the vast majority of our thoughts, our emotions, our reactions, our choices. It’s all in the body.
So through polyvagal research, polyvagal theory, which was discovered by Dr. Stephen Porges, we know that there is this kind of control center in the body or an information superhighway known as the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve is your longest nerve in the body. It’s the 10th cranial nerve. It runs between body and brain. It’s this super, this super highway that delivers messages and communicates between the brain and the body. Now we know that 20% of that communication is moving from the mind down to the body, 20%. Which means that 80% of your thoughts, of your emotions, of your experiences are moving from the body up. The nervous system is sending messages up to the mind, to the brain, that create our reality.
So this completely flips and reverses our conditioning to believe that my mind is everything. I am my mind, right? Actually, you are your body. You are your body. You are your physiology primarily. So when we think of things like the subconscious, the subconscious is the body. And if we want to actually rewire patterns and whether they’re psycho-emotional, mental, physical, it really starts with coming home to our body and learning how to feel again, feel our emotions, our sensations that most of us are disconnected from because we’re trying to think our way through our healing.
Katie: That makes sense. And I mean, that already reveals why this is so important. But and having experienced it myself, I could say firsthand, I know how important this is. But again, I think people often overlook this part, like you explained, because we kind of have this sort of brain over body mentality and we identify with our mind. And I know for me, if we want to talk about the nervous system side, we have parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system states. And I didn’t realize it when I was in that experience, but I had been largely or completely in sympathetic nervous system dominance for a decade. And we sort of call parasympathetic that state of rest and digest and healing. So I look back and go, oh, no wonder it was so hard to get better when my body was interpreting that I was in like a really stressful sort of life-threatening situation, which I wasn’t. But our modern brains haven’t caught up to the things that like our phone is not a tiger chasing us and a stress at work is not a life-threatening situation. But can you talk a little more deeply about why this is so important? Because I think for women, especially this point that you’re explaining is absolutely pivotal.
Veronica: Yeah. I love that you were able to notice and reflect on, oh, wow, I’ve been in this state that evolved to help us survive, right? Like our nervous system evolved to keep us alive. That is its job. It’s a protection system. And it’s highly adaptive. This is why we’re able to move through chronic stress or really scary events and still be able to function.
But when we ignore our body’s role in that, the stress and the trauma stay inside of us. And what happened in the past is being projected onto the present. So we have this process within our nervous system called neuroception. And neuroception is the process through which your body determines whether you’re safe or unsafe. It determines this via the senses, scanning the body internally, and then our external environment as well for signs of safety or danger. It does this every six milliseconds, gathering information from our inner world and our outer world, going, are we safe or unsafe? Or maybe we might not be safe, right?
Now, the thing here is, if we’ve had experiences that were stressful or traumatic in our past that didn’t get a chance to be felt, our nervous system will keep a memory bank of what was happening around us and inside of us during those scary and traumatic events. And then if it senses one of those stimuli in the present, it goes, oh, it’s happening again, or it might happen again. Let’s just be ready. Right? So if we go into chronic stress again, the body might go, oh, it’s happening again. And we’ve got to go into fight or flight or freeze or fawn. And we can talk about the four Fs. But for now, we’ll just break down neuroception. So it’s really intelligent and adaptive. And it goes, oh, that facial expression is a lot like the facial expression you saw when you were having a scary experience, right? And it will very adaptively send us into the survival states, not knowing that actually we’re just hanging out with our friends. We’re just out to lunch. Like we’re just having a good time, but our body doesn’t know that. So it tries to protect us. And that’s where we feel like we’re having maybe a disproportionate reaction to what’s currently in our lived experience. So we may feel suddenly like we have a lot of anxiety or urgency in everything we do. We may feel like, oh, I feel really stressed and my mind is racing, but I don’t want to speak, right? There’s that freeze response. And we need to show our body that we’re safe in order to heal this. We cannot decide, oh, you know what? I don’t want to be anxious, right? Like we can’t just go, you know what, body, I’m not feeling that reaction you’re having. Although a lot of us try to do that, right? Instead, our body needs to be shown that we are safe. And this happens through sensations of safety, sensations of calm, of ease, of pleasure.
Katie: I love that. And to echo that one thing you said, I think it’s important, or at least it was for me in the healing part to realize this is an adaptive response. My body is always on my side. It’s doing what it feels is the best for me. And so if the inputs I’m doing aren’t getting the outputs I want, I need to figure out how to listen to my body and give it what it needs to create the outputs, in this case, the nervous system experience that I want. And I’d love for you to briefly elaborate a little bit on the four Fs and then talk about, we’ll move into talking about how do we signal that safety. But I think the four Fs are important because people can have drastically different reactions to the same sort of nervous system experience. And then they might think they’re not having the same experience as someone else because they’re having a different reaction when really it’s still rooted in the nervous system.
Veronica: Yes, exactly. So we all have a capacity to be in a regulated state. And this is known as your ventral vagal complex, ventral vagal state, where we feel safe and social, meaning it’s safe to be in the world. We feel like we can connect with others. We’re in our body. That is the primary feeling is embodiment with our emotions and sensations without feeling overwhelmed. There’s a sense of flow in our life, calm, ease, but alertness as well. And this is where all systems of the body thrive, by the way. When our nervous system is regulated, our immunity, our cardiovascular health, our hormonal health, our digestive system, they’re all going to thrive when we are in this state of nervous system regulation or the ventral vagal state.
Now, when our body neuro-sets that we might not be safe or that we’re unsafe, again, this can be because of our past and things that haven’t been resolved through the nervous system, it determines the best survival state to send us into based on our past and what worked in the past, right? As well as the genetic predisposition we inherited from our lineage, from our ancestors, right? So some of us may be more sympathetic dominant. Meaning our body determines that fight or flee is the best way to survive whatever we’re moving through.
Now, by the way, sympathetic gets a really bad rep. And I just want to name that through polyvagal theory, we now know that we have to be able to upregulate and go into sympathetic sometimes for very good reasons. So for example, my body was very defended against the fight response. I’m a woman. I was raised as a girl who was taught, you know, your anger is too much. Your anger isn’t appropriate. Just push it down and put a smile on your face. So I’m conditioned to not go into a fight response, which means that I had a really hard time setting healthy boundaries. I was a major people pleaser, and I could easily default to that pattern, even though in my mind I was like, I know I don’t want to be a people pleaser. Why do I keep doing it? I’m trying my best, but my body literally couldn’t let me go there. Right? It was this body-based pattern.
So we know that we need to be able to go into a fight response or a flight response sometimes. It can be very positive. It’s when there’s a threat that the flight and fight response pushes us towards more symptoms of dysregulation. So if I drop into flight, this looks like fleeing. Our body goes, oh, our best chance of survival is to run away. So this can look like urgency, anxiety, feeling kind of scared, feeling like I got to go, I got to go. So even when we’re like doing the dishes right, we’re like rushing through it for some reason, even though we’re not in a hurry. The fight response is also anxiety, right? A lot of that sympathetic energy is moving through the body, preparing us to mobilize but move towards the threat versus running away from it. So it can look like feeling anxious, like we’re interpreting people’s facial expressions and words as combative, even when they’re not being combative. There’s that anger, that irritability, rage, fury, right? Tension in the body.
Now, if we have been in fight or flight for a long time because of chronic stress, which, by the way, that’s the norm in our world, we’re kind of praised, right, for going, going, going and never downregulating. So it’s quite common. The body is really smart. And again, I love what you said, Katie, about like the body is on our side, actually. So it goes, we cannot sustain this. We cannot be in an upregulated state. The systems of our body are being overly taxed. We’re exerting ourselves to a point of exhaustion, right? So it drops us down into what’s known as the freeze response. Now, some of us might skip fight or flight and just drop into freeze in moments of stress or perceived threat. So like my nervous system and a lot of women, by the way, drop into freeze. Because we’re taught, again, to not take up space, especially with our emotions. We’re taught that, again, we have to perform perfectly for others. I need to show up and be in the mood that you want me to be in. Right? Or I need to match the mood that you’re in in order to feel safe.
And so we might be denied this experience of mobilization and instead go into freeze, which is the body is in a state of tonic immobility, it is full of sympathetic energy. So there’s still those racing thoughts, anxiety, worry, overwhelm, but my body, all systems of my body are slowing down. So it’s hard to move. It’s hard to feel safe taking up space. My voice, it’s hard to use my voice. Because this is the body’s intelligent way of, you know, let’s say like you’re a mouse being chased by a cat. The mouse probably can’t fight the cat. It can’t flee. So, okay, well, I’m going to be still and hope the cat doesn’t see me. Or if the cat sees me, I’m going to play dead. And hopefully it’ll get bored of me and not try to eat me. So this is our body’s way of playing dead through immobilization. All systems of the body are going to slow down, including digestion. You know, our hormonal health can really take a toll. And our immunity as well. There’s freeze, right?
And then our body can also drop into what’s known as the fawn response, which I think doesn’t get talked about as much. And the fawn is known as a ventral freeze. So it’s a social state. It’s part of our social engagement system, but it’s also a freeze. There’s this immobility. It’s the dog that meets the alpha dog and goes, oh, will you be my friend? I’m cute. And it rolls on its back and plays nice, right? Like tries to be cute. So many of us, I think, especially women, have experienced this. People-pleasing, appeasing, caretaking, always just performing niceness for others in order to feel safe. And again, this is body driven. It’s a very adaptive response. But it requires us to self-abandon. We have to leave our own experience and our own emotions behind in order to prioritize how everybody else is feeling. But we can heal this. We can come out of this. And as somebody who was a chronic freezer and fawner, and I know you’ve had your own experience, Katie, I’d love to hear about, you can build that capacity for regulation through the body.
Katie: That was such a great explanation. And like you, I had that anger push down, don’t take up space, people pleasing, very much the same. And I had to learn slowly that to have boundaries and to not suppress that fire, but also to let it out with kindness only. And it’s life-changing, slow process sometimes, but absolutely life-changing. And I think all this has built to the perfect point where people are probably wondering, yeah, that makes so much sense. How can I signal to my body that it’s safe? How can I build habits around nervous system health so that my body doesn’t have to exist in those four Fs anymore?
Veronica: Yeah. Well, and I loved how you pointed out, Katie, that it’s a slow process. And this is actually a cornerstone to nervous system healing, to trauma healing, is we need to show our body that it’s safe to go slow. And we have to do our healing in tiny digestible bits for our nervous system to change. So instead of going full force, I’m just going to feel all that anger and I’m going to embody it, right? That’s actually probably going to backfire and drop us back down into freeze because our nervous system doesn’t feel safe with that.
So instead, the very first thing that I teach in my one-on-ones, in my classes and immersions, retreats, is connecting to a felt sense of pleasure. We all have a different relationship with pleasure. Even that word, especially for women, can bring up some stuff. Right? Some people might feel like pleasure is frivolous or trivial, or that I’m talking about spiritual bypassing or toxic positivity, and I’m really not. This is a sensation in your body. It’s a physiological experience. And without it, our nervous system can’t register safety.
So for example, I know that when I look outside at the trees in front of my house, they are a strong somatic resource or what Deb Dana calls a glimmer for me. I can look at the trees and I feel a softening from my forehead down through my heart space. And that is an example of a sensation of pleasure. This little moment of pleasure has a huge impact on my nervous system. Especially when I’m practicing consistently. This is how we show our nervous system that actually we are safe. Actually, the bear isn’t chasing me, right? I can downregulate. It’s a micro-downregulation in the body. And if I stay with it and breathe into it, it expands. So that’s like the first step is like, let’s just build capacity for safety in the nervous system through a felt sense of pleasure. And there’s lots of different practices that can help us with that if our body has become overly familiar with being in a dysregulated state.
Katie: Yeah, I think, again, that cannot be overstated how important that is and how those little shifts over time when they compound can make a really big difference. So for me, I found that one of my signals of safety and pleasure was to get morning sunshine as soon as possible after I woke up. And that as I made that a habit, it became like a little like bliss filter in my brain and I would feel so much more energetic, but also just had this kind of like mental calm that would come over me. And bonus of that is it also helps your sleep at night. When you get outside light, it doesn’t have to be bright. It can be a cloudy day, but getting that outside light early makes such a huge difference. And I know I tried all kinds of modalities. I tried tapping. I tried laying with my legs up on a wall at night to signal a calm state. I tried getting, just getting more hugs and contact with people I love makes a huge difference and it’s free. I know you go deep in the online world on a lot of these modalities and how to use them, but any other places you would give people as starting points, and then I’ll also make sure to link to your work online so people can find it and learn more in depth from you.
Veronica: Yeah, thanks, Katie. I think paying attention to those micro-moments that you were talking about of natural resources that bring you a sense of safety and calm and ease so it doesn’t have to be this like oh I have to do my yoga practice in order to feel better although I love yoga or I have to do this grand gesture of healing in order to feel better, right? Instead, what are the things that are already present in your life that you can look at, listen to, touch, taste, smell, that you know are a resource that shows your nervous system you’re safe? So that, yeah, you’re not moving towards your healing journey with this sense of like, I’ve got to make it happen. I’ve got to do it. I’ve got to, you know, have the most intense cathartic experience to heal. It’s actually in these seemingly mundane but very magical moments that our body can register safety, especially when we slow down to really engage with them through our senses.
Katie: I love that. And where can people find you online? For people listening, we’re going to do a second episode that really goes deep on the nervous system and sort of using it to create the life that you want. But for now, for this conversation, where can people keep learning from you?
Veronica: So if you’re interested in really understanding your triggers, so we talked about neuroception, right, and how your body is perceiving threat, even when threat is absent, this is often what’s called a trigger. And trigger is this really trendy word, this around, you know healing and I find that people have this misconception about triggers, a lot of misconceptions. So I created a free resource. If you go to the truthabouttriggers.com, you can listen to my free pop-up podcast that teaches you all about triggers, how to heal them where they actually exist, which is in your nervous system. And it is specifically designed to help women. So yeah, truthabouttriggers.com is where you can find that. And I’m also wakingwomb on Instagram and on my website.
Katie: Awesome. All of those links, along with the notes I’ve been taking while we’ve been talking, will all be at wellnessmama.com if you guys are listening on the go while you’re going for a walk in the sunshine, which would be great for your nervous system. But definitely follow Veronica and keep learning. I know I’ve learned a lot from you already. And I think this topic, like I said in the beginning, is so important. So thank you so much for your time and for sharing today.
Veronica: Thank you, Katie.
Katie: And thank you for listening. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of The Wellness Mama Podcast.
If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.
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